Many think California pastor and author of The Purpose Driven Life Rick Warren to be a purveyor of designer religion. Now these critics have been given some more ammunition in the form of an interview the mega-church mogul gave to CNN’s Larry King. At issue are comments Warren made in which he seemed to vacillate in his support of his state’s pro-marriage amendment, Proposition 8, and appeared indifferent to the matter of same-sex "marriage" in general.

For example, in the interview Warren said he was “oblivious” to the Iowa Supreme Court ruling legalizing faux marriage, and, when asked about the controversy surrounding his support of Proposition 8, he said:

In the first place, I am not an anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist — never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never — never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

Yet this seems to lie in stark contrast to what Warren said while addressing his church members mere weeks before the Proposition 8 vote. Here is a transcript (and video) of Warren’s remarks to those parishioners:

The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.
 
Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 — and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear.
 
This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat-out asked both of them: what is your definition of marriage? And they both said the same thing – it is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.
 
Now here's an interesting thing. There are about two percent of Americans [who] are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.
 
This is not even just a Christian issue — it's a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love, and procreation.
 
So I urge you to support Proposition 8, and pass that word on. I'm going to be sending out a note to pastors on what I believe about this. But everybody knows what I believe about it. They heard me at the Civil Forum when I asked both Obama and McCain on their views.

And Warren had carried the torch for marriage in other venues as well. For example, read the following excerpt from an interview Warren gave to editor-in-chief of Beliefnet Steven Waldman in December 2008:

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that [giving homosexuals certain partnership rights] as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do. For 5,000 years, marriage has been defined by every single culture and every single religion — this is not a Christian issue. Buddhist, Muslims, Jews — historically, marriage is a man and a woman.

Not surprisingly, the apparent contradictory nature of these comments has only intensified the maelstrom surrounding Warren, causing him to take flak from people on both sides of the faux marriage battle. In response, Warren has sought to clarify his comments. As to this, Sarah Pulliam at Christianity Today printed an explanation sent to her by one of the pastor’s spokesmen. Here is an excerpt:

Because he's a pastor, not an activist, in response to inquiries from church members, he issued an email and video message to his congregation days before the election confirming where he and Saddleback Church stood on this issue.

During the King interview, Dr. Warren also referenced a letter of apology that he sent to gay leaders whom he knew personally. However, that mea culpa was not with respect to his statements or position on Proposition 8 nor the biblical worldview on marriage. Rather, he apologized for his comments in an earlier Beliefnet interview expressing his concern about expanding or redefining the definition of marriage beyond a husband-wife relationship, during which he unintentionally and regrettably gave the impression that consensual adult same sex relationships were equivalent to incest or pedophilia.

In light of this, it may not be fair to call Warren a liar — perhaps he is more of a rationalizer. He seems to be trying to serve two masters, drawing a dubious distinction between being a pastor and an activist. But while it’s a rationale that should satisfy his congregants, it’s likely that others will simply view it as a lack of moral clarity. After all, Warren seems to be trying to remain married to both the spirit of the age and the Holy Spirit, and such theological polygamy inevitably leaves many with bruised feelings.

Photo: AP Images

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Eric said:

	rick warren Warren is a liar and false profit.
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April 11, 2009 | url
Votes: +4

J. Farrell said:

	... No, I'd say Warren's "profit" is very real.
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April 11, 2009
Votes: +9

br said:

Beyond Prop 8/CA Taxes Prop 8 Repeal Bid Begins http://www.365gay.com/news/pro...d-begins/ This is why sodomy should be eliminate, gay legals disbarred, gay nonprofit charters revoked, CA legislature should be one house (Senate) per little Hoover commission, legislators should be part time as in FL, legislature should meet/vote electronically from their HOME/OFFICE WITHOUT STAFF, a state constitutional convention to reorganize the US into a loose confederacy so other states do not have recognize other state gay marriages, and CA should seek closer ties to China/Russia/Islamic nations vs the EU. Register American Independent Party.

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April 11, 2009
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Lee said:

Prop 8 The feathers have begun to hit the fan. Maybe Warren thought that the Voters out California way would vote down Prop 8. They didn't and my theory is that Warren, like so many of the phonies out there who "minister" to their flock, has had to re-think and re-define his position so that it comes closer to the the philosophy of the secularists than to the teachings of the Old Testament and New Testament? Another of the "conservative" psychologists, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, was on Larry King the other night talking out of both sides of her mouth saying that "marriage is between a man and a woman" but, oh, she was explaining to King's viewers when two people of the same sex love one another she does appreciate their commitment to one another! Lots of unmarried people go through life showing commitment to one another but they aren't "committing" themselves in any way that violates the 10 Commandments. The Laura Schlessingers and the Rick Warrens are luke warm in their love of the truth and in their commitment to God and He will spit them out.

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April 12, 2009
Votes: +5

castellina said:

... Well said Lee...These people seem to want their cake and eat it too..Warren's fumbling for words and wanting to appease everybody was spineless and sickening. This is make up your own Christianity as you go along at its best (or worst). How true Christ's words about false prophets leading people astray sound. Dr. Schlessinger's message has become pure psycobabble; I cannot imagine spending money to buy books written by such worthless people.Invest in a good Bible and get the REAL truth.

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April 12, 2009
Votes: +4

Flu-Bird said:

	same sex marrage imoral This whole same sex marrage is just plain imoral and unethical no matter what the liberal human rights freaks say or what the usial birdcage liners or what the talking head say its a offence to god
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April 12, 2009
Votes: +1

Thomas Paine said:

Warren joining the "inside crowd" His total reversal on Prop 8 is clearly from pressure from the top. He was on Fox news today as the Easter message pastor. He discredited the 10 commandments as something no one can live up to. How easy this makes it to allow the NWO killers to convince the atheist public and the diluted christians and Jews that any moral relativity is acceptable. The Communist NWO, wants us to accept whatever they do, even when it clearly violates God's 10 commandments.

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April 13, 2009
Votes: +4

W-Lamp said:

Rick Warren, Please Sit Down Dear Pastor Warren, The headlines below reflect the twists and turns you performed on the subject of homosexuality this Easter week. The world recognizes a lack of integrity when a celebrity figure in popular culture is engaged in verbal gymnastics. The world knows when religion is used as a vehicle for power and influence. Many Christians recognize this maneuvering for a different reason. These gymnastics are very similar to those employed in the Purpose Driven system. The twisting of Scripture that results in the loss of doctrinal integrity. The turning of a church into a business. The Purpose Driven system is used as a vehicle for a desired outcome: growing a bigger church. The world may not appreciate the impact of the Purposed Driven system that leaves a trail of dismembered church families. However, the world is seeing how you have manipulated the gay agenda at the expense of the LGBT community. And now, the media is crying foul. You have earned the title of "America's pastor". All eyes were on you as you prayed at the Presidential Inauguration. Please return to the Biblical role of a pastor, and surrender the role of a politician. For the sake of the Christian witness during this Easter Week, please apologize to those who have been offended by your actions. Please sit down.

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April 13, 2009 | url
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steve'o said:

	WTF Rick Warren is trying to be a friend of the world. However it states in the Bible that a friend of the world is an enemy of YHWH.
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April 13, 2009
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bible basher said:

	Bible says more about liars than homos Well Rickie dickie, you are going to hell - the bible has more to say about liars than gays... Exodus 20:16; Leviticus 19:11; Deuteronomy 5:20; Proverbs 12:22; Ephesians 4:25; Revelation 21:8 Hope it's hot down there!
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April 13, 2009
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William said:

... "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22-23 Body of another christ, You are guilty of murdering those who have fallen. Those of you who condemn Rick Warren for his compromise of Biblical doctrine are just as guilty. He must be held accountable for what he has done in decieving so many but you must pray for God's judgment, not yours! The problem with evangelical christianity today is few have others they are accountble to. This is the reason why pragmatism and compromise has so inunidated our churches. We all must repent if God is ever to heal our land!!! Shame on you...

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April 14, 2009 | url
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Daniel said:

I belong to God He made me Quistion?? you all need to read the Bible , GOD did not make people gay , people made themselfs gay , they decided to become gay and in my BIBLE IT SAYS SODOM & GOMRA WAS DESTROYED for this same thing and GOD gave you a right to obey his word , but you all are trying to make it fit your weird sex , heck animals are not gay? GOD said these times would come on us , having itching ears weird affections , kids turning aganst parents , get ready to meet the LORD.

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April 23, 2009
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DanV said:

Rick Warren's Stance On Same-sex "Marriage" Selwyn: I'm sorry that you have to suffer through misspelled, ungrammatical rhetoric and twisted logic. However, that does seem to portray your readership. In our world there are Bible scholars and Bible thumpers (many of whom seem to wind up here). While I am not a scholar, I do believe in scholars such as Morton Smith, Karen Armstrong, Hans Kung, Charles Freeman, Bart Erhman and Elaine Pagels. I also believe in the validity of the Gnostic Gospels and have studied a bit about the Bible's history. The Bible was written BY men FOR men. It was written as metaphor and allegory. If God "inspired" men to write it, he did not care HOW they wrote it, or WHEN, just WHY. The subject of homosexuality is moot: the word didn't exist until the 19th century. The concept of people of the same sex loving each other is barely alluded to (exception: Jonathan and David). The "sin" of Sodom and Gomorrah has been debated amongst scholars for centuries. The passages of Leviticus were written as part of the holiness code to set apart the Jews from surrounding cultures. I could go on, but these words are falling on deaf ears (actually more like closed brains). The point that I'm trying to make, I guess, is that no one should ever condemn things about which they know nothing. Just reading the Bible will not automatically instill knowledge or wisdom. The people who commented on this article seem to use the Bible as a weapon: i.e. they love to hate people. A commitment between two people to love, respect, protect and support each other is a marriage. It is not "faux marriage" nor is it "marriage" put ostentatiously in quotes. It should be blessed for that wonderful commitment. And it will be - by God, and not by a group of crude Christofascists.

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April 29, 2009 | url
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Douglas said:

response to DanV While you make yourself out to be wise, you prove your lack of understanding. There may be haters here, but I think most would agree it's the behavior they deplore. You can't read the Bible and ask God for guideance and still come away thinking homosexual behavior is acceptable. You are only deluding yourself. Most others are wise enough to recognize BS when they see and smell it.

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May 06, 2009
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